Iowa Throwers' Chain MailNorm's Throws Home * * Ramblings * * Categories
Updated: 9/1/98.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail is maintained by Norm Balke. It is specific to Iowa throwers and throwing coaches, but has something for anyone interested in the throws. You may contact him with your comments at:
balke@iowa-city.k12.ia.us
Places to go:
Avalon Networks is through which this page is made possible
This site will always
be a work in progress. It's a little rough now, but I'm getting good help
from Gary Glenn, computer mentor extraordinaire. Eventually, I will have
the entries indexed by subject to make it easier to navigate.
The following are issues of ITCM that were distributed on limited level to coaches around the state by U.S. mail or email. Beginning with September 1997, all issues will be exclusively on the web.
No.3 August 1998: Once a Week Meets, Jeremy Allen at World Junior Championships
No.2 July 1998: Iowa State Meet 1998, Changing Weights Of Implements, NCAA Qualifying idea, I Want New HS Throwing Events!, Soccer and Other Minor Sports, Competition Styles
No.1 April 1998: Throwing Logs and Plates
No.4 September 1997: Glide Shotput Revelations, Different Competiton Organizational Styles
No.3 May 1997: More Rotational Shotput, Iowa Throwers at the NCAA Indoor, The Power Position in the Shotput
No.2 April 1997: Rotational Shotput, Differences Between Rotational Shot and Discus, Discus Cue, Wish List This Year
No.1 March 1997: Greetings, Rotational Shotput, Web Sites for Throwers, Discus Revelations.
No.1 1996: Distance Lines, Throwers' Events and Number of Entries, Tape Rule, More Fun Reading Rule Book.
No.4 June 1995: Uniform Rule, How to Run a Shot and Discus Competition II, I've Gone Crazy, Spin-In-Place, Summer Throwing, Don't Be Shy!
No.3 May 1995: Safety!!!, Drake Relays, Throwers' Only Meets.
No.2 April 1995: No-Arm Drill, Is It the Track Team or the Shot and Discus Team?, The Weightmens' Relay, In or Out of the Stadium?, The State Meets.
No.1 February 1995: Hello Throwers!, Questions, Why Should Throwing Coaches Work Together?, Educate People Running the Events!, Imitations.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #4, September 1998 back to Issues of ITCM
Weight Training
You don't see me write much about weight training. There are a multitiude of "right" ways to weight train. The following is my overall philosophy about weight training. I could tell you what I would do specifically, but I would simply be one more voice among the hundreds.
1. There are A LOT of "experts". Keep an open mind.
2. Some weight training is better than no weight training.
3. One's program should include some specific exercises and some general exercises.
4. Repetitions and sets and exercises should change every 3-4 weeks. One reason why you increase in strength by weight training is that you body's nervous system is responding to stress being put upon it. If you do the same exercises and reps and sets all of the time, you body will adapt and you will plateau.
5. More is not always better. Occasional rest is important.
Weight Training 2: What I would have done differently
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #3, August 1998 back to Issues of ITCM
I was at a meet once last season and I heard an old grizzled coach say,"I remember the good old days when we had only one meet per week. I feel like all I do is go to meets!" Well, I thought about that a little bit. There have been times when I wondered if maybe we didn't have too many meets. What if we had one meet per week?
What about JVs, sophs, and frosh?
Well, how about having a JV division and a frosh or soph division at every meet? If everyone had 5-6 outdoor Fridays, not counting Drake, State, and conferences, that would be plenty of competition for these athletes.
What about qualifying for State/Drake?
If everyone decided on this format, everyone would get the same amount of chances. The weather would still be a variable, as it always was.
At the 4A boys' level, there are 48 teams. So that would mean every Friday, there would be 6-8 meets around the state. Of course, the scheduling would be a problem initially, but I think it could be fun and people wouldn't be run ragged every spring going to so many meets and it may be that spectators could count on the fact that "it's Friday, it's track meet day", like one can with football.
Jeremy Allen at the World Junior Championships
If you get a chance in the next three years, get a look at Jeremy Allen at an Iowa home meet or at Drake Relays. He is a thrower at the UI, with the following PRs (as an 18-year-old freshman): 59'3" - SP, 191'9" -DT, 170' - HT, 63' - Wt. Big Ten Champ in the disc, 2nd indoors and 4th outdoors in the Big Ten shot, 6th at NCAAs in the disc, U.S. Junior Champ in the disc, Big Ten Freshman of the Year in both indoor and outdoor track, School record Holder in the Weight and the Hammer. He has just finished his season by throwing 185'6" for 4th place at the World Junior Championships. Great Season!
When Jamie Beyer of ISU (62' -SP, 185' -DT, 66' -Wt., NCAA placer in the weight and shot) returns from his redshirt season, there should be some very good collegiate throwing in this state!
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #2, July 1998 back to Issues of ITCM
Seeding of the throwers:
Traditionally, the way that I understand that the seeding should be done is to have the lowest qualifier as the first thrower, and the farther qualifier as the last thrower. That way the best throwers are most likely to have all their throws closest together in time, since the odds are that the farther qualified throwers will make the finals.
Both the shot and discus were seeded so that the 8th-1st throwers were in the 1st flight and the 16th- 9th were in the second, or something like that. In other words, it was not done in the traditional manner. does anyone know of a reason for that?
The discus area:
Pitiful. Can't they get someone to mow out there for the state meet? Can't Drake University or whoever does these sorts of things come up with more visible distance and sector lines? This is one of the worst meets I go to every year for not being able to see distance lines.
How far did they throw?
Those discus officials have got to YELL out the distances, or they need to get themselves a distance board!
The 4A Shotput
It was impressive! The winner not decide until the end and the top three had to be about the farther top three in a loooong time. Trent Clemen, Dubuque Wahlert, 59'0 1/2", Chris Ashton, West Des Moines Valley, 58'0", and Nate Miltenberger, Ankeny, 57'7". PRs for Clemen and Miltenberger. Good job, men!
Changing Weights Of Implements
Radical thought: what if the shot and the disc were reduced to weights that would possibly not require quite so much brute strength. I don't know what those weights would be; maybe to get it so light as to accomplish that, it would be a ridiculously light weight. Truthfully, right or wrong, that seems to be one reason why the throws get the short end of the T&F stick.
Just a random thought.
Here's yet another idea to help solve the qualifying conundrum that we are in now, with teams splitting up and sending athletes all over creation for meets, looking for windy sites, and last chance meets in Last Gasp, IA. It may also be good for the sport in general.
The NCAA determines a list of "approved meets" for NCAA qualifying. The meets would have the following criteria:
1. The team cannot be split up; the entire team must be at that location.
2. Team scoring must be kept.
3. The meet must have X number of teams from the same NCAA level: D1, D2, D3.
Qualifying marks: simply take the top X number of marks from the approved meets. I think 16 would be plenty; two prelim heats in applicable running events and 2x the number of scorers.
I Want New HS Throwing Events!
Barriers to new HS throwing events: cost, safety, space, tradition.
The weight indoors: How about a 25 lb. med ball on a short rope? It's soft, it doesn't go real far, it costs less than a real weight. The same space as the shot could be used.
The hammer outdoors: How about a 12 lb. med ball on a rope? Same argument as the weight, except that it would be thrown from the discus area.
The javelin outdoors: I could make the argument that it is actually safer than the shot or discus. You are actually looking at the area you throw in to while throwing, the disc and shot begin with the thrower facing away from the throwing area. The javelin is expensive, how about the Turbo-Jav as a substitute? Safety: rubber tipped javs? Area: it can be thrown off of grass.
Any thoughts on this subject?
This rambles a bit, but bear with me!
I respect soccer as a sport, but I am sort of getting tired of hearing from the media about how the United States is not good at soccer, doesn't understand it, not excited about the World Cup, how popular it is among suburbia parents and kids, etc. etc.
All the whining about the lack of U.S. popularity of soccer as a spectator sport despite the vast number of youth programs is amazing. One could take the word "soccer" out of most every one of the articles bemoaning the lack of mass popularity of soccer with "track" or "wrestling" or "lacrosse" or what ever other minor sports you can name.
A wrestler in Iran is regarded as something of a hero. A weightlifter in Bulgaria is a big-time athlete. Track athletes in Europe are much more highly thought of than in the U.S.
Why aren't these sportswriters going on and on about how Olympic weightlifting is not better here? The U.S. is horrible at this sport at the international level. Why isn't something being done about it?
What about wrestling? The U.S. isn't too bad; we've had a number of medalists at Olympics and World Championships. However, the colleges are dropping this sport like flies. This is an outrage!
How about track and field? The U.S. is DOMINANT in the worldwide history of the sport. Yet the media coverage is puny and ridiculous. What's the deal? Can someone tell me why this is? I open the paper and read about soccer, soccer, soccer, and we can't even do boo internationally in that sport, yet we dominate track and field and I'm lucky to read anything about it.
So why has soccer taken off as a youth sport? I truly think that it was some sort of a quirk of fate, a random chance event, a fluke. Right now, there are four wrestling rooms in Iowa City that are not being used. Why aren't they being used for some sort of youth activity? How about track and field? There are four tracks here in Iowa City, that are right now not being used. Why doesn't some group of parents organize some sort of track club? Those are facilities in existence. No fields need be built.
Some might say that soccer is easy to learn and do for kids and parents. Track is not? All kids learn to run before they learn to kick a ball. Kids can "wrestle" before they can walk.
Am I jealous of the success/ attention that soccer is now receiving? Definitely, because track is my sport and it's getting nothing. Do I feel like it's some fault of the sport itself, in the nature or nurture of it? Maybe a little, but I think that it's simply luck that soccer was a minor sport that took off.
Is there an answer? Yes, there are many, but many sports become more popular because of the efforts of marketing and media. That is what has helped sports like hockey, which has gotten a mini-surge in the past few years, beach volleyball and volleyball, and of course, soccer. I tell you right now that if Bill Gates decided that he wanted to put track and field on the sporting map, it would happen. If ESPN decided that they wanted to hype up track and field with funky ads and smart-ass commentators making silly comments, popularity would surge.
I have lots of other suggestions, but they'll have to wait.
I have discussed this before, but I think that I have some new and different ideas.
1. "Raising the Bar" (like the high jump)
Throwers have a "starting distance" that they must achieve. I would say only 2 attempts at a distance. Good throwers can start when they choose, like a high jumper. Placings can be done either like the high jump, or by having the farther throw, like usual.
2. Head to Head Competition
Take8 to the finals. Seed them as usual, 1-8. Then have pairings and throwoff: 1 v. 8, 2 v. 7, etc. The winner of 1-8 would then throw against the 4-5, etc. Then the final two would throw-off. again, I think you could have placing by throwoffs or by best throw overall. One couldn't foul on the throwoff, which could make things interesting.
3. Modified traditional
8 to the finals, 8 get one throw in the finals, reorder, 4 get the next throw, reorder,2 get their last throws. Similar to T&FN, Aug. 98 idea. Overall farthest wins as usual.
4. Number of Throws
There has been a lot of talk about simply having 4 throws, period, not having 6 ever. The idea is that a thrower generally doesn't need 6. I can kind of see that. I can also see having just 3 throws. I had a meet with a tremendous number of throwers, so I simply made it in to a 3 throw only meet. No complaints.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #1, April 1998 back to Issues of ITCM
I decided that I needed to more specific training this year, so I ordered some medicine balls. They never came. So, early in the season, I walked out to the throwing area and I noticed a bunch of trees that were near the power lines had been chopped down. Remaining were all kinds of sizes and shapes of heavy logs. That's when the light bulb came on over my head. These logs would take the place of the medicine balls for my specific training!
It worked out great! The throwers really liked doing the drills and I think enjoyed the "medievalness" of it. There were plenty of logs, so all 20 throwers could have one, and they were of all different weights, so they didn't always get "the light one" or "the heavy one". We had a couple that must have been at least 70 pounds that 2 people would hold up so that the thrower could have it in front of them to do a 2 handed front facing heave. It was fun!
A couple of weeks later, I walked out to practice, and saw that the logs were gone! I was disappointed, but I was really motivated, because I felt like the specific training was going well. So I got out the 25 lb. plates from the weight room. They worked well, but lacked the rusticness of the logs.
Seriously, after reading some comments on The Ring, I realized two things:
1. Throwing in itself is a type of resistance training.
2. You cannot get good at throwing heavy things without throwing heavy things.
Bench press, squats, and even cleans are great, but can't be the only "heavy" thing you do in your training. The actual shots and discs that you throw are good, but maybe don't overload your specific muscles used for throwing as much as throwing heavy shots, plates, and logs. Also, I realized that you need to exercise those throwing muscles by throwing not only heavy things, but throwing heavy things in different ways: discus- style, hammer-style, overhead, both hands, one hand, opposite hand.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #4, September 1997 back to Issues of ITCM
I have really changed my outlook on the shotput within the last year. As a coach, I have gone from all glide with a little spin added, to trying to do as much spin as possible, to back to rethinking the glide as the major technique. This all began with a discussion of the differences between the so-called European Glide and the Feuerbach style of the glide. I have done a lot of reading and discussing with coaches and have come to the conclusion that I need to give the European style of gliding a try. What are the differences, you may ask? (assuming a right handed thrower, and that the direction of the throw is 12 o'clock in the descriptions)
| Glide factors | European Glide | Feuerbach Glide |
| Stance at power position | Wide: right foot past half | Right foot at the center |
| Right foot placement in power position | Can vary: 4-4:30, 3 o'clock not necessary | 3 o'clock is the goal |
| Rhythm of the grounding of the feet in power position | Right-left | Simultaneous |
| Left arm position during glide | Stays at 6 o'clock mostly, some opening allowed | No opening allowed |
| Right foot pivot in the power position | Not emphasized | Emphasized |
| Weight on right leg at power position | Yes | Yes |
What got me thinking was that this technique seemedto be more like a "natural" throwing motion, where the right lands first, then the left. This occurs in throwing baseballs, footballs, javelins, discuses, hammers, anything. One of the things that happens when you are overly concerned with getting the right leg under in the power position while trying to get both feet to land simultaneously, is that you stop the momentum gained from the glide. The European style keeps the ball moving, with less hesitation. The key is to keep the ball moving in as straight of a line as possible, as fast as possible, with a release at an optimum angle.
Does this mean that the Feuerbach technique is somehow bad? It has worked for some throwers. It is extremely difficult to do what he does and maintain momentum across the ring. It is possible that many have worked on attaining that power position to the detriment of other skills to be developed. Worst case scenario, the athlete may not have the ability to handle that maneuver and efficiently apply maximum force to the ball. The European technique seems to be a bit simpler to teach and more throwers can physically hit the positions.
Does it mean that I don't like the spin? No. But I'm starting to wonder if it is just too hard for the average high school thrower. If you are only training for 3-4 weeks before your first meet and then the meets come twice to three times a week after that, I don't know if you can get the consistent work you need to have to become competent in the spin. I'm not giving up on it, though.
More on the European Glide later!
Different competition organization styles
There has been some discussion at many levels about whether or not to allow 6 throws in a competition. I have been at all kinds of meets, and here is what I've seen:
1. 3 throws only: Usually not enough
2. 4 throws only: Okay, but not for big competitions. Many think that this is all you need.
3. 3 prelims, 3 finals: The traditional way
4. 6 throws only: Not much different than #3, fine for a small number of competitors
5. 3 or 4 throws- all in a row: I HATE THIS! People think this saves time. It does not!
6. 3 or 4 throws- 2 entries in to the ring: Same as #5
7. "Cafeteria-style" throwing: Same as #5 and #6. Even worse because of organizational problems.
8. Flights of 30: Same as #5, #6, and #7
9. Flights with no warmups in between: Not fair to anyone in later flights.
10. "Hadda bedda"- person marking determines if the thrower "hadda bedda" throw and decides whether it should be measured: You are at the mercy of the measurer. Plus it takes away the secondary throw as a tie-breaker.
11. Various distance limitations that are not measured: Takes away the secondary throw as a tie-breaker, plus in some cases, throwers deserve to have a mark. Distances chosen are arbitrary.
12. 3 prelims, 3 finals, flights of reasonable length, warmups between flights, all legal throws measured, throwers take one throw at a time: I do actually see this.
I am really okay with the idea of four throws. Three seems like not quite enough, except for maybe younger throwers. I favor the traditional approach (see #12).
Here's a thought that intrigues me. How about running a throwing competition like the high jump. Start out at a low distance, throw that, and you're still in, if not, you're out. Move up 5 feet at a time, and maybe 2 feet at the higher distances. I'm not sure that 3 tries at each distance would work: maybe 2. Obviously, the good throwers can use lower distances as warmups. You would be assured that the best throwers would still be in at the end. I'm sure about details, like what would you do if someone came in at 30' and threw 60' once then quit. That would take away some of the excitement. Maybe say, sure throw 60' but it will only count as acheiving the 30' distance. I'd like to try it sometime.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #3, May 1997 back to Issues of ITCM
I had a coach (who will remain nameless) say to me at the first meet of the year, "So I thought all of your guys were spinning this year. How come they're not?" Good question.
What I am doing is having the majority of their work spinning. Then when they get to a meet there needs to be a decision as to which technique to use. The object of the meet is to throw as far as possible, and if they can throw far gliding, they should glide. That doesn't mean that they won't eventually spin.
Here's an analogy: Suppose you had a paper to type and you needed to get it done fast. You have been a "hunt and peck" typist for awhile. But you are currently taking a class where you are learning to type correctly, using home keys, not looking at the keyboard, etc. Now you know you can type "correctly", but you want to get this paper done quickly. So of course, you are going to "hunt and peck". Months later, as you get better from practicing for your class, you find that you are really typing instead of hunting and pecking.
Same thing for the glider who is changing to the spin. The glide is like "hunting and pecking" and the spin is like "correct" typing technique. That is not saying that the glide is easier. But you generally do not suddenly say, "I'm a spinner," and you are automatically better than your glide. What I am advocating is that you keep the glide in reserve as you learn the spin. Eventually, it will become obvious as to which technique is best for the individual. But you must give the spin a serious try before a "final" decision is made. Even then I think that it is a good idea to keep doing drills with it as a help for discus and simply to break up the monotony of the glide, which can happen.
Iowa Throwers at the NCAA Indoor 1997
Jamie Beyer, ISU, 6th place, weight, 20.28 (66'6 1/2"), 6th place, shotput (rotational), 18.51 (60'8 3/4")
Renatta Seiler, KSU, 5th place, weight, 19.22 (63'0 3/4")
Kris Curnyn, ISU, 9th place, weight, 18.36 (60'3")
The Power Position in the Shotput
Much is discussed about foot placement in the shotput power position. The goal is to apply force to the shot over as long of a distance as is possible and reasonable. Taken to the extreme, you could get a super wide base and bend way over, and you would be "applying force over a long distance". However, that is unreasonable, as you could not get out of that position very easily. It's sort of like if you want to jump high, you don't begin in a full squat position. That's why I added the word "reasonable". That "reasonableness" will vary from thrower to thrower.
My guideline is: Is the shot behind the right leg? (opposite for lefties). If you dropped the shot, would it land on you or on the area to the right of your right leg? For the most part, the width of the feet are npot as important as that guideline.
If the guideline is the shot placement, then what about the left arm? Theoretically, it could be in a lot of different places and still be okay. In fact, some coaches use different cues. Some say, "Lock the shot back", or" keep the shoulder(s) back" (not the left arm). I still think that keeping the left arm back is the best cue for the stand throw because of the length of the lever it can do a lot for keeping one's weight back and it's big and easy to visualize.
What about the orientation of the right foot? One sees a range of ideas from the "Feuerbach" at 90 degrees to the "European" at around 45 degrees. Gliders I think must strive for 90, but it is a very difficult maneuver, that's why you don't see too many gliders achieving this. Rotational putters don't need to be as concerned about it, as it is a position that is "moved through" more than for the glider, who actually do hit that position briefly.
Do not allow throwers to only become great stand throwers. Try to have them be in a position as they would be in a glide when they do their stand throws. Do not allow them to 'bounce" through the throw or to "whip" the free arm. You can't do this during the glide, so why would you in a stand throw. You do not want to work on something that is not related to the full throw. Have throwers go back to the proper power position, FREEZE, then execute the throw. Think legs first. Finish tall, head up, chest out. Punch the shot.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #2, April 1997 back to Issues of ITCM
I am working with this technique more than ever. In discussions in The Ring on the WWW, it seems that virtually no 65'+ throwers are gliding. Whether this means that we all should spin is uncertain, but I'm giving it a try this year.
As you look at the practitioners of this technique, you see that the windup is different than the discus in that the thrower is bent at the waist a bit and is generally lower. Also as the thrower moves through the middle of the ring, there is a more pronounced "wrap" of the non throwing arm. In a general sense, the rotational shot is made up of smaller, tighter, and lower movements than the rotational discus. This is because of the smaller ring, the orientation of the weight in relation to the thrower, and because the shot must be released at a higher angle than the discus because the shot is not aerodynamic. The smaller ring makes you have to have a different timing with your first step because you can't just stretch it out to the middle like in the discus. Especially at first, you have to control that first turn more. This is usually more of a concern with a tall thrower. In the discus, the weight of the implement is far away from the center of gravity, in the shot the weight of the implement is close to the center of gravity. In the discus, you can kind of "get away with getting a good pull on the disc if you have good flexibility in the shoulder and simply "keeping the discus arm loose". In the shot, you must find a way to keep your weight back and that is why there is the "wrap" in the middle of the ring with the free arm. It helps to keep the weight back. This maneuver also helps with getting lift on the shot.
I talked to someone who uses the cue "lead with the TOE" when getting out of the back in the rotational events. I like it a lot; it is simple.
1. No meets with one big flight of 30.
2. No meets where they try to run the varsity competitions simultaneously so that the thrower
has to run back and forth between events.
3. No waiting for an athlete running another event.
4. No meets where an athlete can take whatever number of throws they want to at a time.
5. No meets where there are no warmups in the competition ring.
6. Officials yelling out distances so people can hear.
7. Lines on fields marked in a reasonable and relatively accurate manner.
8. No coaches being asked to help run an event.
9. Get rid of the magical 5:00 starting time; you can't run the throwing events in the dark.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail #1, January 1997 back to Issues of ITCM
I am returning to this again in a big way. I did pretty well in '95, but I only did one in '96. Since then I have had some requests to come back to it, which was very encouraging and surprising. If you ever want old ITCMs, let me know; there were 4 from '95 and 1 from '96.
Did you know that 7 out of the 12 finalists at the Olympics this summer were spinners? The ones that weren't came from the old Eastern Bloc sports system where they were almost entirely gliders. I really think that this will become the standard in the U.S. and perhaps the world. More on this later.
I've found a few good WWW sites for throwers. Here they are:
The Ring - This is a semi-live chat room for throwers. A good place for questions and answers and interesting discussions.
http://plasma.phys.uidaho.edu/kcarr/dischat.html
The Throwers' Page - This has many links other throwing-related and track related sites.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/3027/throhome.html
The Long and Strong Throwers' Page - Another place for links to sites. Also has some discussion and coaching sections. Relatively new and fun.
http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/8682/
All of the other good sites are within these sites. I always check The Ring every day for new posts.
After much intense viewing of discus videos this past year, I have come to the following revelations:
Most good throwers:
· Have some sort of a big stretch on their windup.
· The right leg gets ahead of the discus arm right away and stays ahead throughout the throw. More specifically, the hip gets ahead of the shoulder almost immediately from out of the back of the ring.
· Get at least 180 degrees of pull at the power position, even if their non-throwing arm is in a bad position.
These were consistent for all kinds of good throwers: wide leg, run across, all kinds of idiosyncrasies. We can get hung up on some technical points, and not see the big picture. It seems if the above three things don't happen, regardless of esthetics, there may be some problems.
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail No.1, 1996 back to Issues of ITCM
I have been to too many meets where there were no distance lines in the sector. Even though it probably shouldn't make a difference, it does. Throwers like to have a point of reference. An extreme example was at the State Meet waaaay back in'81, where there were no distance lines at all. Not good for competitors or spectators.
Throwers' events and number of entries
Every once in a while, I get a little crazy. I was thinking about how if you have three good sprinters on a track team, you have all kinds of events for them to do. But, if you have three good throwers, in most meets, there are only 2 spots in the shot and discus. If you are the third best thrower, you are out of luck. If you are the third or fourth or fifth best sprinter, there is a spot for you.
Solution one:
Allow three entries for the shot and discus in all meets. Because of the nature of the events, there no other places to put a third thrower. You really don't need to do the same for running events, because the third runner has other individual events and relays that they can do. It should not be a big problem for the well-run throwing competition.
Solution two:
Add the weight throw. The hammer or javelin would not go over well as they take up a lot of space. However, a good weight thrower would not throw more than 60-70 feet. You would have to get inserts for the discus ring, as it is a 7 foot ring, and get a weight or two. They have iron ones and indoor ones. The indoor ones are more expensive and bigger, but a little safer because of their construction. I would advocate the 25 lb. variety. Again, this would give a thrower another event. As it is now, throwers have only two possible events. A sprinter can potentially have four with choices of: 100, 200, 400, 4x1, 4x2, 4x4, medley, 110H, 400H, LJ.
I think solution one is easily doable, but solution two is admittedly idealistic. I have shelved my fantasy of adding the javelin.
I went to a meet where taping the wrist in the discus was deemed illegal. I checked the rulebook and it said:
(6-3-7 of National Federation rule book '96)
"No taping of any part of the hands or fingers will be permitted in the discus event unless there is an open wound that must be protected by tape."
It says nothing about taping the wrist. As far as I'm concerned, it is okay to tape your wrist for the discus, especially since there are many meets where they require the thrower to bounce back and forth between events. It says nothing about taping the wrist in the shot section, but yet that is universally accepted.
Here's some more interesting stuff:
6-2-6: To paraphrase, throwing events should be conducted in one session. The girls' state meet has that prelims in the a.m. and finals in the afternoon stuff.
6-4-9: It does mention exiting from the back half of the ring, but does not mention from where to enter. It does not say to exit under control. I'm not sure what to make of that.
6-4-11: Measure to the nearest lesser inch in the discus. I'm too often seeing 1/2" measurements at meets.
Points of special emphasis (p.69): 3. No practice throws unsupervised, or from any area except the official throwing area.
Iowa Throwers'
Chain Mail No. 4, June 1995 back
to the top
The uniform rule
I have seen some problems arising
recently regarding the uniform rule. It seems that many throwers or coaches
of throwers either ignore the rule or are not aware of the rule. I think
this comes from the fact that throwers are often a lot bigger than the other
track athletes and so uniforms available are either too small or uncomfortably
small and skimpy. I also think that this occurs sometimes because of throwers
at some schools being unsupervised and so the athletes feel that they can
do whatever they want to. Finally, since they've been to meets where it
has not been enforced, it reinforces the idea that the uniform rule does
not apply to them.
Nobody wants to be the bad guy and call people on this. What we need to
do is make sure that we make an effort to get extra big equipment for our
extra big athletes. Also, if you are running a meet, make it clear that
the uniform rule will be in effect right from the start so situations don't
arise during the competition.
back to Issues of ITCM
How to run a shot and
discus competition
I talked about this in the very
first Chain Mail. I have seen too many weirdly and poorly run shot and discus
competitions!!
I do have another suggestion to add. Let's say you have a varsity only meet
and you want or have to run the events at the same time. What many have
done is simply take the throwers in one event and reverse the order for
the other. That makes sense, unless you're in the middle flight of both
events, then you're running around again. I suggest the following:
1. Take one event and put the throwers in order and in flights.
2. Shift the flights by one or two so that throwers in flight one of event
A are in flight two of event B, and flight twos in event A are in flight
three of event B, and so on. The last flight throwers for event A would
then be in the first flight of event B. I have also done it so that throwers
were shifted over two flights so they have a little break: Flight one of
event A goes to flight three of event B, and so on.
3. This can only be done if the flights don't get too far ahead of each
other and you alow warmup time inbetween flights.
4. I prefer that the finals of the events not be run at the same time. Perhaps
the order of this can be predetermined.
back to Issues of ITCM
I've gone crazy!
Here are some of my crazy ideas:
1. I like the javelin. You can get rubber tips for them to make them safer.
In some ways, it is safer than the shot or discus. If someone is in the
throwing area, you can see it, and you don't throw it. Can't say the same
for the discus.
2. I also like the weight for outdoors. Normally, the weight is thrown indoors,
but one reason for not having the hammer is space. The weight does not go
as far. One could throw it from their discus cage. The handle is short,
so no worries about getting wire-whipped. Another thing to keep the throwers
occupied.
3. I like the shuffle for some throwers that can't glide or spin in the
shot. If you can keep your weight back and hit a decent power position with
the shuffle, why not use it if they have problems with the other techniques?
4. In the discus, the most difficult thing is to get out of the back of
the ring on balance. If the thrower can't do it, why torture them? Eliminate
180 degrees of that turn, by having them face the sector and do a runthrough
inside the ring.
5. I have more, but I'm saving them for later.
back to Issues of ITCM
Spin-in-place
As I mentioned earlier, the hardest
part of the discus is getting out of the back on balance. The spin-in-place
is a drill I use to work on balance.
1. Begin with the athlete's regular discus windup. Things to consider with
the windup:
a. Back straight
b. Eyes on the horizon
c. Arms out away from the body (90 degrees)
d. Weight should stay on the athlete's turning leg (left for righties)
e. Feet a little wider than shoulder width
f. Left leg and left arm (righties) should move together
g. Windup should not be too far or too vigorous
2. Initiate the turn as you would in a regular throw, except you will rotate
360 degrees and finish in the same position you started with, instead of
going across the ring.
3. Points a-f from number 1 are in effect as you are in motion through your
turn.
4. Left leg stays bent the entire time. This is a common problem.
5. Right leg stays wide. Don't bring it in! The sole of the foot should
be parallel to the ground and move in a big circle around the left foot.
6. This is a hard drill! Beginners will have a hard time. Some veterans
have a hard time.
7. If you get real good at it, try for more than 360 degrees.
8. Don't use left arm to initiate or lead the movement around! See point
F of #1. arms are for balance, not momentum.
back to Issues of ITCM
Summer throwing
At first an athlete who wants to
throw in the summer makes you feel good because that means they are motivated
to be as good as they can be. Sounds great.
However, I see and have seen some problems with this. Number one is liability.
If you supply an athlete with a shot or discus and they go off by themselves
to throw and they hurt someone, watch out! Number two is that you, the coach,
are not there. What can happen then is that the athlete can get into some
bad habits mechanically without someone watching and correcting errors and
guiding them toward good technique.
My feeling is that 10 throws with a coach is better than 100 throws without
a coach. If you can be around some in the summer for those throwers who
want the work, do it. Otherwise, I would say don't enable them to go on
their own. If they want to buy their own implements and throw, you can't
stop them.
Don't be shy!
Let me know how things are going
in your world of throwing. I enjoy hearing from and talking to all kinds
of throwing enthusiasts. I have yet to decide what direction this underground
publication will go. I may keep it going through the year, or I may just
do the track season. I would appreciate any input.
Iowa Throwers'
Chain Mail No.3, May 1995 back
to Issues of ITCM
Safety!!!
Every once in awhile, you have to remind
yourself that then shot and discus events have a lot of safety factors to
keep in mind and to teach to the athletes.
After a close call experience I witnessed recently where an athlete got
hit in the shoulder by a discus on the fly at about 100', it has made me
really think about throwers' safety.
1.Discus Cages: Great idea. I wish that they weren't so darn expensive.
2.No javelin or hammer: There is no javelin or hammer in a lot of
states because of safety and expense. Shot and discus are equally as dangerous.
we need to make sure that we stay safe so that there doesn't become a call
for the elimination of these events. The events are easy targets because
of safety, expense (high expense, low participation), and liability.
3.Discus markers: Educate markers! I saw a kid at the Drake Relays
last year get nailed by a discus in the leg after a number of close calls.
4.Spectators: Drake Relays this year had no flags to keep back spectators.
If you are going to stand close to the sector, be watching and be standing
so you can move. The Drake people are looking at some liability problems
if they don't provide some sort of barrier for spectators.
5.Competitors: Watch out as you're wandering out to retrieve implements!
I try to have someone do it for them so that they don't have to worry about
it.
6.Practice: In the shot, I have the throwers rotate: throw, retrieve,
wait. There should only be one person out in the sector and their only job
is to retrieve. In the discus, I have a lot discuses. We all throw them
and then we all retrieve at once. No one is out in the sector while someone
is throwing. Also, I have to sometimes practice at a ring with no cage,
so I often remind throwers to stay well back from the ring while someone
is throwing.
back to Issues of ITCM
Drake Relays
Here is my list of Drake '95 comments:
1. Why are the distances on those sign things shown on the bottom so that
people in the stands have to look through people to see the mark? Can they
be put up higher somehow?
2. Why doesn't the discus have those sign things?
3. How come there were no bleachers at the discus area this year? The money
usually spent on that was probably spent getting an aging sprinter to come
and finish 4th in the 100.
4. Not throwing related, but there needs to be the same boys events as girls
events. All you'd have to do is get rid of the endless high school boys
4x100s.
5. How come throwers aren't seeded worst to best in preliminaries?
6. The distances on all of the throwing events are really down. 160' was
a very good throw in the university discus, 54'in the university shot, 51'
in the
high school shot, and 145' in the high school discus.
7. I wish the hammer could be at a different time than during the high school
discus. I would really like to see it!
back to Issues of ITCM
"Throwers
only" meets
I have had this idea for a throwers only
meet. I have seen similar things advertised in USA Thrower. Does anyone
have any ideas on this? I have thought about the following formats:
Unlimited entries
After the season (early June)
During the season
Co-ed
Limited entries
Invitation only: top throwers from each class
back to Issues of ITCM
Iowa Throwers'
Chain Mail No.2, APRIL 1995 back
to Issues of ITCM
The No-Arm Drill
The no-arm drill is a drill designed to
emphasize the fact that the legs initiate the throwing (putting) of the
shot. You simply do a regular stand throw, except you don't extend the arm.
The shot will be propelled by the force of the legs, which is really what
you want to emphasize all of the time. You will really be able to tell when
a thrower has been "arming" it too much with this drill. Throwers
who are very strong in the upper body will benefit from this because they
are the ones that tend to not utilize their legs as well. Tell the thrower
to not expect the shot go far! As they get better at this drill, they may
be surprised at how far they can make it go by utilizing the power in their
legs.
back to Issues of ITCM
Is it the track team
or the shot and discus team?
I have
had this debate with myself for a long time. Should you encourage the throwers
to be part of the rest of the track team or are you creating an artificial
situation that is irrelevant to the goals of your average high school thrower?
When I was competing at the collegiate level, the throwers were in close
proximity to the runners and spent a lot of time together on long bus trips
and hotels. The throwing areas were on the infields of tracks, so we could
see runners and runners could see us. Also, throwers I was around were track
fans, so they had a high level of interest in all events. This is not the
situation at the high school level. Throwing areas are always far away from
the track, so runners rarely see throwers and throwers rarely see runners.
There are few instances for interaction. I have tried over the years to
find ways to integrate the throwers in to the rest of the team. This is
what I have discovered:
1. Throwers do not feel respected or appreciated by the rest of the track
community.
2. Few people want to help work these events.
3. Except for close family and friends, people don't usually come to really
watch these events.
4. Throwers don't feel that others understand the events.
5. Throwers do very different things in training and competition than runners.
6. Throwers are usually far away from where runners train.
I have come to the cynical conclusion that the throwers are a separate team
that just happens to ride the bus to the same athletic event as the runners
and their points count toward the runners' team totals. The training, the
techniques, the areas where we do our thing, and the whole "culture"
of the throwing events are so different than the rest of the track team,
that any attempt to integrate the thrower to the rest of the team is artificial
and a waste of time. The unity of the throwing "team" should be
considered a positive thing in the sense of creating pride for what throwers
do. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
back to Issues of ITCM
The Weightmen's
Relay
I don't like this one bit. Sure, throwers
need to be good all-around athletes, but to put throwers out on the track,
untrained in the 4x100, and in some cases passing a shotput instead of a
baton, is insulting. It is usually an unscored event, and the fans have
a big laugh at "the fat guys' " expense. Do they ever have a shotput
competition for distance runners? Of course not, because since few venture
off to the throwing areas, no one could get the good laugh out of it. It
is irrelevant, degrading, a waste of time, and needs to be gone.
back to Issues of ITCM
In or out of the Stadium?
What do you think about having the discus
inside Drake Stadium? Sometimes I think that it would good to get more people
to see it, but I like the fact that at the intramural field spectators can
be close to the action.
Ideas or thoughts?
back to Issues of ITCM
The State Meets
What I don't like:
1. Girls' meet: Not having weigh-ins and inspections of their own implements.
Having to use the limited choices of implements supplied.
2. Girls' meet: Having the prelims of the shot in the morning and the finals
in the afternoon. I see no logical reason for this. This is not done at
any other meet that they participate in, or in any other meet at any level.
3. Boys' and girls' meets: Discus sector lines only were marked last year,
with no distance lines. No excuse for that.
4. Some years of boys' meets: Discus on Saturday. Given a choice, with the
discus being at the intramural field, I would prefer to miss preliminary
running events on Friday. If the discus is on Saturday, one misses a lot
of final running events.
5. Most years boys' and girls' meets: Not yelling out distances or not using
the board to show the distances in a way so that it can be seen by more
spectators.
back to Issues of ITCM
Don't break the chain!
Spread the good word among throwing coaches! Copy and distribute this at
will. Send me any ideas , thoughts, or complaints and I'll send it back
out through the chain. I'm looking forward to seeing you at the rings this
spring!
Iowa Throwers' Chain Mail back to Issues of ITCM
#1, February '95
by Norm Balke
Those of you who know me, don't read this part. For the rest, I'm Norm Balke, and I've coached the throwers at City High in Iowa City since 1987. I was a thrower at City High ('81) and at the University of Iowa ('86). The highlights of my throwing career were winning Drake and State in '81 in the shot, setting the U. of Iowa record in the shot in '84, and placing 3rd in the Big Ten in the discus in '86.
Now that I've been coaching awhile, I've become increasingly frustrated with the declining status of the throwing events since I started throwing way back when. Shorter distances being acheived, bad press because of world-class drug suspensions, and the falling popularity of track and field as a sport have all contributed to my feelings.
Many of you know that last season I talked about the idea of a newsletter or something like that to get throwers and coaches in this area positive and informed about the events. Well, I sat around thinking about it all of the time trying to think about a way to do this inexpensively and without consuming too much time that I already don't have. This is what I came up with.
Here's what you do: I am sending this to some coaches that I know. When you get this, do one of the following:
1. Read it and throw it away (please don't!).
2. Read it and save it (a little better).
3. Read it and copy it and send it to other coaches that you know (This is more like it).
4. Read it, ADD to it you thoughts, ideas, feelings, complaints, drill(s), technical philosophies, recordkeeping ideas, weight training ideas, schedules, and anything else throwing related! Copy and send to other coaches! Also send any new stuff to me, then I'll send stuff out again!
5. Athletes can read this, too!
Helpful hint: Use the smallest size print that you think is reasonable to cut down amounts of copying and to help keep you under 32 cents postage.
Let's see how it goes!
I've got a lot! Can you help me or anyone else with the same or similar problems?
1. Does any one have an easy and cheap way to set up an outdoor throwing net? I get so sick of my athletes' addiction to how far they're throwing at the expense of good technique.
2. I have difficulty attracting good female athletes to throw. For women, being a thrower seems to be a horrible stigma. For men, in this sexist world, it's okay to be big and lift weights and grunt and all that. I've had girls say to me, "I don't want to lift, because I don't want to get all big." If it were that easy, we would have to double the size of weight room. If you grew 1/32nds of an inch from lifting, that is the result of a lot of hard work and, male or female, it's solid and it looks good. Any thoughts or ideas?
3. Did anyone else see the listing of the top 50 track performances for Iowa in the paper last year? Did anyone see the amount of mistakes that I did? In at least the throwing events, can we do something about it?
Why Should Throwing Coaches Work Together?
I am basically a paranoid person. I can see the shot and discus being events that go the way of high school gymnastics and the pole vault: events that are expensive with low participation and high liability. You may laugh, but I'll bet 20 years ago, no one ever thought that their gymnastics program would go or that the pole vault would be gone. All it would take would be one unsupervised athlete to get hit in the head with a shot or discus and hurt badly or killed and a big lawsuit and bye-bye big guys.
Right now the shot and discus are not popular events, people don't like to coach them (not us), people don't have time or the staff to coach them, and new implements and cages and painted lines are expensive. If these events aren't taken seriously, these events can be easily dropped. If we just hoard our little secrets and plans and athletes, the sport will not progress. In the shot and discus, your competitor can not impede your progress! The kid from the other school cannot guard you, tackle you, make you fumble, steal the implement, block you, trip you, pin you, make the implement heavier, or change the distance you throw.
So why not work together to make the events as good as the can be? If we work together, the throws will be safer, farther, more popular, more respected, and protected from the budgetary axe.
Educate People Who Are Running the Events!
On this subject, I have two pet peeves (probably more, but just two for now). One is having to run or help run a meet as a coach. What other sport's coaches have to do this? I know sometimes it's unavoidable, but I wish it happened rarely instead of a lot. The other is watching poorly run meet. Here are my thoughts on this (add yours if you have any ideas):
1. DO NOT ALLOW TWO OR THREE OR FOUR THROWS IN A ROW!! People think this is a time saver. It is not!! If athletes know the order, it should go quickly with one throw at a time. Multiple throws in a row mean the thrower throws, sees the mark, thinks about it, decides whether to go again, checks with the coach, cleans off the implement, changes the implement, checks the wind, cleans off their shoes...you get the idea. DON'T RUN A MEET LIKE THAT! It is not done like that at the collegiate and international levels and it's not done like that at Drake or State!
2. Keep throwers informed. Always let them know what flight they're in, and be yelling out who is up, who's on deck, and who's in the hole. Do this loudly enough to be heard.
3. Don't flip-flop events. The mental and physical preparation for each event is different. As much as possible, run the preliminary throws and the finals of an event right in a row.
4. YELL OUT THE MEASUREMENTS! Everyone wants to know!
5. When possible, get entries days before the meet and seed them. Seed them worst first to best. Odds are much greater that the better throwers will be in the finals, so why make them sit and wait? Many times, when done this way, the throwers will only want a relatively short warmup period before the finals. Otherwise, if they've had to sit around, they'll want and need a longer warmup period.
6. Allow warmups in the same ring that they will compete on. Few sports have you warmup at a different place than where the competition occurs. Not all rings are the same.
7. Allow warmups between flights and before the finals.
8. Whenever possible, don't run the two events simultaneously. If it is a co-ed meet, run boys' shot and girls' disc at the same time, and then switch. If it is JV and varsity, run JV shot during varsity disc.
9. HAVE FLIGHTS! I have been to too many meets where it's just one flight of 30. I think flights of no less than 4 and no more than 8 is good.
10. If I come up with more, I'll add them to the next Chain Mail!
Some people call these drills by different things, but I call them "imitations". I feel that they are the most important things that a thrower can do. The shotput and discus movements are so unusual for the human body to do, that we need to rehearse them as much as possible.
Sometimes when a thrower gets an implement into his or her hands, all they care about is throwing it as far as possible. The problem with that way of thinking is that it causes you to not move as correctly as you could, because your mind is on other things. If you can rehearse the movement correctly enough times, it becomes second nature, then you can concentrate on effort. The problem is when throwers try to throw full-out without first having the biomechanically efficient technique. You can only be in the ring so many times, but you can do imitations anywhere, all of the time! You can do them in your garage, on the sidewalk, in the hallway, in your bedroom, at the store, you name it!
I've got more, but I'd like to hear from you! Good luck this season! Don't break the Chain Mail!
Throwers' Links back to the top
The Ring: A chatroom where throwers and coaches can exchage ideas or comments. People who have been seen and heard from on The Ring include: Lance Deal, American Record holder and #1 world ranked in the hammer, John Smith, former nationally ranked shotputter and coach/husband of Connie Price-Smith, the perennially #1 ranked shotputter nationally, Tom Kohlhepp, Throws Coach and Editor and Publisher of USA THROWER, Andy Bloom, 1996 NCAA Champion in the shot and discus, Jason Tunks, 1997 Canadian National Champion in the shot and discus and NCAA champion in the discus, and high school coaches for Scott Moser (207' in the discus) and Reese Hoffa (64' in the shot). These are just a few of the interesting people you'll find in The Ring.
The Long and Strong Throwers' Page: A page devoted to throwing ("Long") and weight training ("Strong"). A variety of musings by Glenn Thompson, interviews, links, and pictures are to found here.
USA Thrower: Maintained by Tom Kohlhepp, Throws Coach at Syracuse, this is a site related to his magazine of the same name. It has a Coaches' Corner, pictures, and other information pertinent to throwers.
The Throwers' Page: This page has lots of links to throws sites, track and field sites, merchandise sites, and publications sites
Kevin Carr's Discus Page: This page is maintained by the same person who is The Ring-master. It contains a nice picture sequence of Mac Wilkins with explanations of each frame.
Jason Tunks' Page: More of a personal web page. It has many fun pictures of 1996 Canadian Olympian and 1997 NCAA Champion Jason Tunks' SMU and Canadian buddies.
Canadian Throws Site Home Page: A page devoted to Canadian throwers with relevant results and various links.
Mike Buncic Discus Throw Page: Mike Buncic was a world-class competitor with a PR of 227'. His musings about what he feels is important about throwing the discus is worth a read.
Shot and Disc Page: Lots of links. There are Highlights from The Ring on this page.
The Ultimate Throwing Page: An enormous amount of links to different records: Nations' records, Olympic, American World. Also other throwing related links.
A javelin page: A simple page with a nice photo sequence of Zelezny.
